Recently, BioWare’s Stephen Reid, in a response to questions on Twitter, indicated that Advanced Class ‘switching’ in Star Wars: The Old Republic ’may happen post-launch’. As with many things on the Internet, there was a flurry of response to this small tidbit of information on the official SWTOR forums.
Much like the delicate situation on Taris, Internet forums often become complicated.
As the conversation progressed, Mr. Reid himself dropped by with some words on the matter:
“Folks, please don’t overreact about the possibility of something happening in the future.
Advanced Class switching (or re-speccing, take your pick) was, at one point, potentially going to go into the game. Right now, it’s not in the game. It could potentially be added after launch. Like, frankly, anything else. To quote Georg “we reserve the right to change our minds based on feedback and testing”.
This thread is feedback. It’ll be taken into account by the developers, along with the usual metrics we look at. I’ll say this much – any sort of Advanced Class changing is not under discussion for launch, or even right after launch.
Absolutely anything in the game is potentially open to change in the future. That’s part of what an MMO is about. Your feedback on those changes is absolutely welcome, but just because we say that yes, something may potentially happen in the future… that doesn’t make it a certainty.”
So there you have it… We’ll most likely be seeing some form of Advanced Class switching post-launch. Though it isn’t guaranteed. I don’t think it’s too surprising for BioWare to admit it’s a possibility at some point post-launch – as anything can be changed to meet the demands of the game as it continues to mature.
Advanced Class switching certainly seems to be a feature for a more developed game, and it’s certainly something that I see them adding at some point in the future. I do think that it should not be ‘easy’, and switching should involve some cost and effort for the player. How do you feel about Advanced Class switching? Do you think it’s something that is necessary, and if included at all – should it be costly or as easy as the press of a button?
Let us know your thoughts!
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I think that advanced class switching is a bad idea. You have really 8 classes per faction. You have 4 main classes, then advanced classing brings it to 8 classes, and being able to switch your advanced class cuts it back down to 4. It’s kinda like being able to change from a dk to a warrior (WoW speak). If every class has a viable leveling spec and is able to dps, I don’t see the need for advanced class switching.
Respecing however, is a must.
No it would still be 8 classes you just won’t be forced to make 8 characters in order to play them all.
What is the point of that? SO in wow you should have 5 toons that can switch from a caster to a melee cause ppl are bored? Reroll. its a fucking stupid idea to allow advance class respec
Let’s say a sentinel changes to a guardian. The closest comparison in WoW would be saying a fury warrior changes to an arms warrior. Sentinel and Marauder are two of the least popular ACs. If they could do more than melee dps they might be more popular.
Huh no the closest comparison is fury warrior switching to prot warrior the guardian is a tank remember. The reason why marauder and sentinel is the least popular is because there is no AC switching, if there were switching that tree would be higher for leveling purposes and only some might change to tanking because no one really knows how end game is going to turn out.
It would be close to impossible to respect because of the story. It would screw your whole game up. unless they did it at lvl 50, but then imagine the bugs youll have trying to match up your story when they add more with an expansion.
Story is based on your class it has nothing to do with your advanced class. If it did they would just do 8 classes instead of the advanced class system.
Advanced Class changing is waaaaaay different from skill tree respecs. Advanced Class is like a whole ‘nother class within the story pick class at character generation.
That said, I feel like if it ever is implemented (I’m not too keen on the idea), it should be extremely limited. I saw one good suggestion on the forums the other day.
Two times to change the AC. Once to see the other, and if you end up not liking the other one more than the first, change back, and no more changes.
As far as I’ve heard, the story-line is class-based, not advanced-class-based. Without switching, if I’ve leveled a gun-slinger and I want to start playing a smuggler, I’m gonna go through exactly the same story-line all over again. Sounds like tedious.
It would be different if the story-lines diverged substantially between the choices.
@Rophuine Usiah
You can look at it this way:
Empire and Republic have mirrored classes, so why not level a Gunslinger and an Operative? Changes both the playstyle and the story. If they allowed changing AC, you would practically only get different story, but end up with the same character playstyle-wise.
I wouldn’t level an operative because it is part of a different faction… I can no longer play with my friend’s high level republic characters if I start an Imperial Agent.
(Also aesthetics, scattergun > knife)
As a former WoW player, I was elated when the ability to switch between two preset specs was introduced. It meant, for instance, that I could have one character decked out and optimized for PvP and PvE at the same time, with only the press of a button in the way of said optimization. I don’t have much experience with other MMOs, so it may be that I’m a tad spoiled in that regard. At any rate, I think I can live without that particular capability in SWTOR. It was never necessary, but certainly convenient in WoW.
Of course, unless you’re talking about, say, paying credits to redo your skill tree build. I’m pretty sure they mentioned something about that being available. I would definitely mind being permanently locked into whatever skill tree I picked, with no way to fix mistakes or move skill allocations around whatsoever.
Would love to see this in the game. I’d rather play the game organically and not have to worry about planning my end game character 40 levels in advance.
Personally, I feel that people will be happy if they can respec their “talents” around, but I feel like BW will be making more people mad than happy if they allow AC switching. The AC my not change the story-line, but for example, the Sith Warrior, it changes what armor you wear as well as how many lightsabers you have and if AC swapping is allowed, I feel that people stealing others gear for their “off set” gear set will be a HUGE problem as it was with people stealing gear in WoW to fit their “off set”… Terrible idea BW idc what the minority says (yeah thats right, if you support AC swapping, you are the minority) just keep it the way you intended and leave AC out of this game.
Well, Ankin was a marauder and than a Jugg. I say hell yes we need it.
When was anakin a marauder?
Big difference in want and need lol IDK if you were around for vanilla WoW but we did just fine without all the charity crap which people are given in WoW today. Instead of worrying about your PvP or end-game situation, worry about what class you want to play….
I’d rather fix the root of the problem than limit player options. Drops need to be done away with in favor of collecting valor points or something like that so we can just cash them in for armor/weapons. It’s a win/win.. we get the stuff we actually want and there are no sour grapes about someone stealing loot or about the loot simply never dropping.
So you think we also need some sort of “badge” system? LOL no, when you get a new piece of armor, it should be a great achievement, not something you can farm the simplest task for. THIS IS NOT WOW and if you say SWTOR should take the “badge” system from WoW because it is a successful MMO and people like it, then this game is going to become a bore just like WoW…. Nothing but farming
I’d hate for the game to get in your way of feeling like you’ve achieved something special in your life by getting a lucky weapon drop.
still strokin your e-peen I see
God forbid you have to do a raid/instance and not get something out of it…. Let me guess, you are one of those people who are pro dungeon finder?
lol go back to pandas
I 100% agree that there should NOT be AC switching. Respeccing within the same AC is fine.
Yes, respeccing within an AC might not be a bad idea, having a immortal Jugg for PvE and switching to Vengeance for PvP is a good idea, but having that Jugg suddenly turn into a Marauder…… Now that is stupid and a waste. No do not allow it
He was a Marauder for all of like 30 seconds, then got a hand cut off. That only shows how unsuccessful it is to change your AC.
made me lol…. Say no to AC swapping
If we’re going to be technical about this nonsense he was a Sentinel, as he was a Jedi at this point
Note to self…. going sent/marauder gets your hand cut off
ACs are essentially different classes ….don’t let them be respecable. While in beta , I went marauder and wanted to try Juggernaut, in beta it would have been neat to change AC to test it out. However, I truly believe that your AC is a defining aspect of your character that should not change. If all you want is end-game numbers bot that can be anything you want it to be …please enjoy another game.
Same here, dual spect is a good idea but switching AC i dont tink so.
Whats next Race changing and faction swapping
say no
Well, nobody would be clamoring for class switching if instead of consular–>sage/shadow, we had the two classes from the start, right from character creation.
This is true, but what is 10 levels? an hour or 2 of your time?
Just about 2 hours if you rush, actually. I did the Sith Warrior in about 3, but only because the class story boss towards the end was tuned too high and kicked my ass. xD
Yeah, unless you’ve already gone through that content several times. I want to level an IA Operative, but with a 40 gunsliner, 50 sorcerer, plus a smattering of 30s; the idea of going back through Hutta, Dromund Kaas, Balmorra, etc. again makes me want to vomit.
Tell me you didn’t dual spec in WoW.
I mean, it’s the same amount of impact to the game as allowing a holy paladin respec to a prot pally. Really, is that going to hurt your game? Would it be problematic for you if I didn’t like my Sniper’s playstyle, and opted to switch to Operative as I found it more fun to play?
If anything, they could at least let you preview the trainable class abilities, as talents don’t indicate much of the playstyle.
Additionally, I had a maurader that I leveled to 20, but being that it was on a low pop server, I realized that for solo pve, a dps specced juggernaught with vette’s dps would actually make for more enjoyable leveling. A player doesn’t have accurate ground to know what they want to play during the first 10-15 leveles after choosing their AC; at that point the killing is easy. It’s when you get to more challenging content when you realize whether the combination of the class abilities and playstyle suits your own playstyle. Thus, I find no problem with a limited, costly ability to switch.
I hope they dont change it. Once you pick your AC that should be it. I do agree with respec within your AC but not with changing AC.However, IF the do allow it in the future it should be with a huge cost and maybe a lot of work.
If they do allow it, then they should be doing the same model WOW is doing it, charging you $25/$30 bucks to swap your class/race out and pick whatever the heck you want and maybe force a name change or something like that. Even that is a bit cheese, but should limit the number of AC swapping people do while still allowing it if you just gotta have something else and don’t want to re-level up.
-Deprivator
The more options, the better. Shoving people into one facet of the game, and then changing skills then changes the game for those players, who may no longer like those changes, and thus, stuck with a broken character.
Who is shoving who into what? YOU pick your original class and YOU pick you AC. The AC choice is as important as picking you original class and no one is limited to anything.
@Veradun- Wow, take a chill. We get it; you don’t want this feature for whatever reason. No need to spam/attack others for having their own opinion on the matter. I personally fall into the more options is better crowd- it’s why I drive an Escalade, and not an Aveo.
More options is better until someone says that there should be more features in character customization, then everyone acts like you’re a whiner. You complain that there should be more RP options and everyone is calling you a whiner. You praise the game but say its lacking some popular feature of the WoW generation, its not criticism, its just expected.
More options is better in a very subjective way with people. Some things do have to be restricted. Just giving everyone what they want doesn’t always help the game. It has to make sense beyond “it makes people happy”.
I am not a lazy sucker who can’t be bothered to actually accept the weight of my class choices. I pay attention, I don’t just breeze through then complain that I didn’t realize being a tank would bore me at end level.
No not at all … (Warrior Talent Trees) Arms is to Fury is to Protection as (Guardian Talent Trees) Defense is to Vigilance is to Focus.
AC switching likens itself to switching from a DK to a Warrior in WoW.
If you’re gonna allow that kind of switch, might as well allow switching between all AC’s (Sage’s to Guardians for example) … it makes just as much sense.
Look there has to be some low lvl switching allowed. All of you are forgetting the drunken mistakes you made while playing MMO’s. My worst was selling all my DPS gear because while drunk I decided all I was going to do was tank. This is certainly a comprimise that makes sense.
I must say, it’s a terrible idea. Here is an example: Juggernaut uses heavy armor, Marauder uses medium armor. If you switch from Juggernaut to Marauder, You will end up naked, because you cannot wear the armor because you don’t have heavy armor profanity anymore?
Advanced classes are very different from each other. I wiew them as “the real” classes of the game, while the class you start out with is just a larval form of something greater (to use Uldrid’s words from Dragon age origins). A Sith warrior that hasn’t chosen his/her AC yet isn’t good for anything really. they do a little damage and that’s it.
So, if they allow this without severe penalties. People will do this: level a character up as a Marauder and spec juggernaut at 50 for tanking, simply because Marauder is faster to level up.
Of course, that’s just an example. I’m not saying Marauder will be faster or not.
I’d much rather have dual spec within AC instead.
no one is sayng respec withing a given ac isnt gonna be in game it is. No one will take the ability to respec to a diffrent spc withing a given ac away from u.
What i dont want is ac switching. I definatly dont want ac ds . Not to beat a horse to death
But the acs are much diffrent change then arms warrior to prot warrior.
As a sentinel u are in effect a diffrent class then the gaurdian jedi knght.
If u play assasin as a sith inquisitor its almost like a rogue but a sorcerer is more like a mage/priest
ac switchign is more akin to class switchng in wow the spec switching.
Keep in mind there are 3 trees for 3 different play styles within an ac u can respect to at will. ac changing is not something i want.
But this isn’t WoW. It doesn’t have to follow WoW’s rules or format. That may be the only experience you have that you can liken it to, but it isn’t set in stone, it isn’t the rule.
And I imagine if they allow AC switches, it will be much like when you first choose your AC and you get a little bag with basic, level appropriate green items suited to your spec. This is not a big deal, it has no impact on you, I have no idea why people are so vehemently opposed to something they can opt out of.
I for one think AC respecing is a bad idea. The AC’s differ a lot and most of them use different gear.
Its one thing to respec and have gear that doesn’t have the best stats for you but I don’t want to respec and end up naked because I can’t even equip my gear.
But I would like to see duel spec within AC.
Seems like the consensus is to allow respec’ing within your AC, which is already in game, and NOT to allow AC switching.
I completely agree with this sentiment, but what I would like to see, is at some point like in WOW (yeah I am comparing this to wow =)), I would like to dual spec withing my AC.
Having to run to an NPC, clear out my talents, re-pick them because my guild needs a healer rather than DPS, and then go do it all over again in reverse to go back to soloing would really suck and all it does is make switching spec’s tedious.
If for some reason I’ve completely missed this features (only played the last beta weekend), then awesome, if not then I’d like to see a similar wow type setup for dual spec’ing.
Switching AC’s is pretty crazy, no reason to allow that or you end up being able to pick from 4 classes with one character and that’s a bit much. People like to feel that their character has something unique about it, if anyone can turn into what you are on a dime, it takes away from what your bring to the table.
-Deprivator
Acccctually, only two advanced classes for one character. If you’re a sith warrior, your choices are Juggernaut or Maurader. Bam. Talent respecs are in game, and costly, but available.
Advanced Class switching/re-speccing is a must – there’s 3/7 other classes to play and i highly doubt anyone will play the same class up twice.
Respeccing works brilliantly in rift, and its easy and hihgly enjoyable to switch from dmg to healing to tanking with the same class, and not having to spend days leveling and gathering gear to play a new class/toon at high level.
Only problem would be missing the storyline if its different.
Remember the good old days of MMOs where you didn’t have people raging about the developers saying something about something being put in or not put into their game? People have become so picky these days, and I feel like there’s a fair amount of people who think they can have their MMO like they have their hamburger.
I think they should allow at least 2 AC changes so say you pick a tanking/melee consular and think you dont like it so you want to try the ranged/healer AC (change 1) and once youve tried that you decide you didnt like it that much and preferred the tanking/melee so you change back (change 2) now youve had chance to try both AC and now you should be stuck with it that is unless they have a free for all switch system but with a cost (credits) althou I dont see anything heroic about paying to unlearn something just to instantly learn something else …..*cough* add all 5 trees and double up on the points *cough*
Bioware can always pull a Blizzard and charge $30 real cash for a AC respec.
Blizzard doesn’t do this, I’m not sure what you’re talking about? You can dual spec for (in-game) gold. And to change your talent spec, you pay an increasing fee per respec, also in in-game gold.
I think that most of the people discussing this topic are forgetting HOW AC-switching was going to be implemented back when it was planned for launch, and by extension how it’s likely to be implemented for post-launch. Basically, it’s not something you can do at the drop of a hat in order to have two classes for the price of one. Instead, it’s something you can do once or twice around levels 11-15 or so if you end up not liking your advanced class and want to try the other one instead* (which, if the number of people asking for help picking an AC over Dromund Kaas general chat this past weekend is any indication, is going to happen to quite a few people), and after that… Well, it’s theoretically possible, but good luck with that.
*To everyone with the oh-so-helpful suggestion that “you only have to play to level 10 again:”
1. I applaud anyone who’s able to speed through that, but each of my beta characters took about a full day to get off their origin worlds, with little-to-no break in questing activity, and I’m not sure that I could reasonably reduce that time by very much.
2. Regardless of how long it takes, it’s not going to be a very fun experience realizing you have to replay a planet and a half because you goofed up on a purely gameplay choice regarding which the game still (in my opinion at least) provides inadequate information for many of the people who will be coming in without prior knowledge of the advanced class system. At the very least the AC-selection quest needs to have a lot more pomp and circumstance involved so as to impress upon players that which box they press “Select” on at the end is a BIG. KRIFFING. DEAL.
I would either welcome this option or move the choice to earlier on in the game, having to make it to level 15 to make that decision, is a nightmere if realising just afterwards that you’ve made the wrong choice. As I realised during beta, well at least until we did a flashpoint and found that healing was definately needed.
However that being said, an earlier choice would be a better option, even getting to choose right off from the start would be great, though if that isnt possible I think getting to change it would be good, but there should definately be some cost involved.
I cannot see this being any problem with your storyline however, as its only a change of 1 sub class to another, the stories are based on your primary class (Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Warrior, Knight, etc.).
I’m already thinking about rolling 2 Bounty Hunters so I can have a PT and Merc this would save me going through that process twice…or is that what BW want?
I predict with a 100% certainty that this feature will become availible post launch, but when i say post launch i mean like 5 or more years from now. The ones who are active and interested in this game so far are us “die-hard fans” so to speak, and i have no trouble believing that as this game progresses and we get more and more people who will be willing to try this on a whim, bioware will be inclined to produce changes that will keep these players, who may or may not care as much about which game they are playing, just aslong as they have _something_ that is mildly entertaining to preoccupy themselves with.
I like to compare this to the early stages of WoW, where we had no problem without all these features like dual-specc, dungeonfinder etc etc. I do not believe WoW would be able to hold as many nonchalant gamers at this stage, without these features.
If they don’t add this, then I can see a massive shortage of Tanks & Healing classes “more so then normal”. Its stupid not to have this feature available. That’s my opinion on the matter.
There is no need to have advance class switching, that is the same thing as a rogue switching to a mage at max level. No other game allows that, nor should this one. People are saying how it takes all this time to make a new toon if they want to be the other advance class, its the same thing if you choose to be one class in WoW, but then change to a Warrior because leveling a certain class is quicker then leveling a different class. You have to make a whole new class in any other game if you want to play a different class. If the story thing is a issue, just press space and skip the scenes, no big deal. It took me 4 hours to get off the starter planet, but when I played for 3-4 levels as a advanced class, I made a new toon and went the other AC, this time it took me maybe 2 hours to get off the starter planet. People that want this remind me spoiled kids that want the most expensive things, and then cry about it till they get it. This isn’t WoW, and I hope that you all don’t make them turn into WoW. I want things hard and exciting, not a WoW clone.
@Nora, there is spec changes already in the game so they have that covered.
I truly hope so, otherwise its going to magnify the “I’m the tank and can treat you however I want because I’m so rare” Stink. Time will tell.
Nora, that is why I am in a guild and won’t have to worry about kids/some adults and their I am better then you egos.
RIFT does. My cleric can switch between melee dps, caster dps, healing and tanking. All with different skill sets. In essence RIFT already allows AC onky they’ve combined them with tgeir skill trees
As I said in another response, this isn’t WoW. It’s a different class system. Stop comparing it.
You can relate those supporting this feature’s implementation to spoiled children wanting everything, however those opposing it sound like a combination of resentful hipsters with a superiority complex and envious children who despise the legitimate wants of others as a result of their own perceived deprivations.
[...] revelation has certainly stirred up quite a discussion for our friends over at TORWars, so we thought it might be the right time to take the temperature [...]
I dont like AC switch. What I would like to see is switching inside skill trees. So you can swith from a PvP build into a PvE build.
They have were you can switch specs already in game, just not have dual spec.
Can you please elaborate?
You can reset your skill tree with the skill tree trainer, for a fee that increases the more you do it. This allows you to switch from, for example, a healer role to one of two dps roles (if you were, say, a sorcerer).
Which, in effect, is not so far off from changing from a sage healer to a shadow tank.
(Sage healer can change to Sage caster dps)
however
(Shadow melee dps apparently should not be able to change to Sage caster dps.)
Ooooh, big change there! Bad idea!
I don’t understand why people are so against this. It really has no effect on anyone but the individual making the choice. If all classes are viable in all specs, that switching will come down to choice.
As for gear, I think it’s necessary to set out the loot rules at the beginning of a flashpoint or ops run so you can avoid the “for my other spec” looting.
I’m all for AC swaps, but then I really wouldn’t care if in WOW they let you switch from rogue to mage. What you do has no effect on me, so why should I stop you from doing it?
Assasin and Sorceror are Two completly different classes lumped together by two things:
1) Force Lightening &
2) Darth Maul.
———————
Even if the story lines are the same, my approach to every fight as a Maurader(played beta) will be way different than my approach as a Jug(playing live). They are 2 different classes at the split. Maur is 2 types of wanton death and destruction, where Jug can meatshield, so that others my live to unleash wanton detruction. Even as straight dps, the Jug rotations are way different.
WoW was a. WAY different animal. As a prot paly, there was ))”"NO”"(( use for me in a raid that I wasn’t MT/OT. There was no way the beat dps out to that tank tree! But SWTOR is a great leap forward that with 3 trees (thanks Rift), I can drop coin to dps instead of tank, and still be a Jug.
For fun, imagine Palpatine telling Yoda to wait a sec, I’m gonna switch over to my Assasin spec & grab my 2blader, so my old arse can bounce around like your little green self!
I don’t like the idee, I think it’s good to have some pernament choices.
Why is everyone so obsessed with comparing to wow? There is no comparison for AC switching ther. Instead look at RIFT. AC switching would be like switching ur role since in RIFT ur skills are based on spec. Switch from marauder to Juggernaut here would be like switching from paragon to say pally or reaver in RIFT.
Advanced class switching is a must!
Every good MMO has it.
It gives players the option to try different classes with the ability to revert to their previous class with no repercussions.
If I want to play a tank for PvE and DPS for PvP I should be able to.
Tanks are nearly useless in PvP since they can’t aggro players; players can attack whoever they want.
Why would I want to play a class that is only good in PvE?
and that’s to say nothing of determining end game viability. Sucks to find out your Mercenary (or whichever class you please..) is undesireable in operations, and as such, no groups for you. “Go Reroll!” Doing all of those same quests and story arcs, does indeed become a grind. And if you’re an empire player, all of the rainbows and daisys of the republic side is additionally painful to endure, if you’re trying to mix it up to make it work.
[...] being said, on December 1, 2011, TORWARS posted an article with a quote from Stephen Reid stating that people should not be up in arms about something that [...]