Greetings, fellow TORwarriors, I’m Doug Bonderud and welcome to what I’m calling “Open TOR policy”, where I’ll examine some of the challenges BioWare’s flagship MMO faces on its road to super-stardom. First up: the great sandbox debate.
No wonder Sith are so angry - you try getting sand out of those robes!
Tusken Raiders in the Sandbox
If you ever choose to visit the Star Wars: The Old Republic forums (a choice for the brave and the heavily inebriated), you’ll see that there’s always an issue under debate. Along with the last large-scale Beta test BioWare ran from November 25-28 came the typing sounds of a thousand trolls at a thousand keyboards, many raging that SWTOR isn’t the sandbox or themepark game they’d hoped for. So where does SWTOR fall?
MMORPGs are commonly placed in one of two categories:
“Themepark”, in which the player is given things to do by the developer and can either enjoy the park for what it’s worth or go sit in the car.
Or
“Sandbox”, in which an intrepid adventurer is dropped into a world without any restrictions on where to go and what to do (although the three-headed uber-beast one valley over is a bad idea to take on alone while still wearing the linen pants the first quest-giver handed out).
Themepark games provide a fun, albeit linear experience for a player, while sandbox games allow a player to create their own experience by connecting their dots in random order.
The Galaxies Factor
If you listen to those who played the sandbox MMO that was Star Wars Galaxies, SWTOR should have been the same thing. Players should have been able to level their skill in Coruscant Algae Reclamation as easily as Armstech or Biochem, and should have had the option to let their Companion Characters dance and sing in cantinas for increased skill points (you can make your character do this in SWTOR all you want – what you’ll get for it is anyone’s guess). The addition of “fourth pillar” storytelling and BioWare’s penchant for creating narrative-driven games, however, meant that such a world was all but impossible.
Indeed, playing the SWTOR Beta gave a real feeling of being “herded” from one quest hub to the next and completing the assigned missions there. In this sense it’s very much like the Game It Always Gets Compared To, a game which features a linear leveling path and one from which SWTOR borrows a great deal of inspiration. There was also a sense in the Beta of knowing that progression would happen in measured chunks on a planet before your hero would be sent off to the next one, and the segregation of worlds and quests conspired to lend a straight-line feeling to the game, though one easily broken by the vast array of planets and missions to choose from on-board a Trooper’s BT-7 Thunderclap or Inquistor’s Fury.
This themepark ride is called 'Choice' and it's blasting outta this sandbox! (I'm not sure what that means but it sounds kinda cool.)
Sandparks & Themeboxes
Perhaps the trouble with SWTOR is that it doesn’t easily fit into the sandbox or themepark categories. While the “go build a house in the wilderness and craft furniture” options aren’t there for sandbox-lovers, there’s also an element of unpredictability inherent in the game that sets it apart from being a themepark: player choice. Watch any teaser media on the SWTOR website and you’ll hear the term “story-driven MMO” – playing the Beta has shored up the impact of that facet on player experience; though the game’s mechanics are themepark-ish, the story reads like a Choose Your Own Adventure. Sure, my level 50 Imperial Agent will have the same overall plot arc as yours, but the choices you made in that story unfolding were entirely up to you.
Take the experience of my level nine Jedi Knight as an example (I’ll miss you, Rem!). Without giving anything away, he was called to make a choice on Tython that was fairly hefty and came with the standard Light and Dark Side options, but also featured a third option that wasn’t just “forgive” or “kill”. This choice gave me pause, and I found it was far more difficult – and interesting – to factor in a “gray” choice. It took me a full two minutes to make the call, and even then I had second thoughts about it.
This ability to make a player think, to alter the arc of character development even slightly is where I think SWTOR shines and manages to add a new layer to the themepark. A themepark where you own the place instead of just having purchased a ticket to ride the roller coaster while stuffing your face with cotton candy.
What do you think, TORwarriors? Does SWTOR fall into the sandbox or themepark category, or has it found a middle ground?
TORWars Podcast #151: Aren't You the Pretty Kitty?
I think this game has no sandbox elements, when I think in sandbox I think in Darkfall, Mortal Online, SW Galaxies (pre-SOE)… and this game do not fit with that games, but there is nothing wrong in themepark games, I’ve played last two beta weekends and I really loved my Sith Sorcerer and I can’t wait to play again.
I wanted an updated SWG and got my hopes up a bit too much. My main disappointment was that SWTOR is more WoW than SWG as I hated WoW.
But having just played (and loved) Skyrim, I have come to the conclusion that I will never be happy with a AAA MMO until you have more free choice in your abilities set. For instance Skyrim, if you want to be a warrior with two handed weapons, you grab a two handed sword and you get better with every hit that makes contact. Then as you level up you get better at what you do.
This was what I loved about SWG, I had the ability to chose from a large amount of skills, being able to be a three time master if I wanted and it led to a vast array of possible play styles…
then WoW broke records and unfortunately condemned us to the WoW model forever. SWTOR is a WoW killer, but it is this because it is the same style, but new.
Saying that, I enjoyed the beta, it is a decent game… I was very pissed off at how the process of gaining your lightsaber is just breezed over, but over all I’ll give it a solid try then probably drop it when ME3 comes out
I just wanted to say that I absolutely love your definition of a “themepark” game.
That being said, I truly enjoy this game. I tried SWG several times, and I just couldn’t get into it. There was never much of a story, which for me made it difficult to really care about my character and what was going on.
But, that was just me. Hopefully, the community will build up and give those people who desire more sandboxy gameplay at least some of the things they are looking for.
In my opinion if a game is too much of a sandbox the story is not structured enough to be interesting to me. Take Skyrim, I was playing it for a week or so before I got into the beta. I really like the game but I could care less about the story, it just does not drive me. I also don’t like spending most of my time traveling and looking for places. Once I find where I need to go spend 3 minutes killing and then have to go back.
But I enjoy structure in a game in my opinion; it makes for better combat and a better challenge. Like in Skyrim I keep making new characters because I get to a point that I am able to one shot Dragons. Too many options to make you overpowered too quick, it gets very boring not being challenged.
I think with too much freedom people will find too many ways to cheat the system or make the system work too much into their advantage. To have a game be balanced and challenging you have to put limitations out. It has been with my experience of playing MMO’s for the last 7 years that I have seen the more balanced and challenging a game is the better it has done. I do like sandbox games when I just want to go out and waste time doing nothing, but when a game gets to that point for me I think it is time for us to part ways.
I feel it is an incredibly cleverly made Theme Park. Where it greatly differs in reguard to your average Theme Park is in unique feel – I will FEEL that my Lv50 Agent is different to your Lv50 Agent even if you are wearing the same gear. Because I was along for the ride as a Driving force and not just an audience member – strangely; if you and I had the exact same Imperial Agent in every way, i’d prorably find it indereing, knowing that You as a player decided to make like-minded decisions of which I can relate. Interesting! – where as in any other game i’d simply think ‘pfft, how unoriginal’
There are sandbox elements but I wouldn’t go as far to say having sand makes it a sandbox.
A very very interesting report Doug! Kudos.
SIDENOTE: klander made reference to “SWG (pre-SOE)” I think he/she means ‘SWG (pre-NGE) – the NGE was the massive patch that changed the game. SOE were the publisher, there was no SWG pre-SOE
I prefer a themepark. But if SWTOR wants to revolutionize MMO’s it’ll add a sandbox component in their expansion. Perhaps add a couple planets instanced/phased into a more free-form world.
But for now, with the compelling storylines, I’ll have my hands full playing one of each class. Not just “leveling” but actually, PLAYING.
I’m sorry but I fail to see how story-driven makes it any less of a themepark mmo. That would only be true if the choices you make change the story thereby creating a different branch in the main line, but they don’t. You will play through exactly the same storyline regardless of your choices. It might have a different feel to it, and certain scenes might be a little different, but the story itself is going along on rails.
You can’t get more themepark than SWTOR because your class questline forces you on an even narrower track than in some other themepark-like mmos where you might have some choice about where you level or which quests you do or do not do. It might be a different and new and more exciting type of themepark mmo, but I can see nothing to substantiate your claim that it ‘doesn’t easily fit into the sandbox or themepark categories’. The only way it could have fit more easily into the themepark category would be if they had called it ThemeSWTOR
The only thing that makes it slightly more sandbox is the fact that you can choose to either level through pve or pvp, doing only your class quests. That’s not a viable option in most games.
I feel this game was great! The story, the combat, the UI, and the way they developed the game and tied it all together was amazing! My one compliant is that I have loved SWG for it’s open world. You could spend hours setting up a city, decorating the city hall, having a city mayor race, ect.. I guess I was hoping for this. In SWG you had free roam of the worlds. I said it in beta and I’ll say it here, I hate the fact that a cave or a building depending on what class you are has a red wall not allowing you in. And if you are allowed in, after the quest is over it is a red wall and you are not allowed back in.
I would much rather see free roam where we can go where we want without those (red wall) limitations.
I would be even more sold on the game then I am now (Proud CE Owner)if they added player housing, cities for your guild, and more open sandbox planets in coming expansions.
The game is great! Don’t get me wrong. The article above talks about dancing in a Cantina. Yep that was one of the things I loved about SWG. You didn’t have to kill stuff if you didn’t want to. You could play a instrument, dance, or whatever else just to help other players out!
The trader class was a huge success in my opinion. Looking for that perfect metal could take you all day! But when you found it and placed your machine to pick it up you felt a sense of pride.
You could spend all day in SWG without killing a single wamp-rat or kreedle. I guess this is what made SWG unique!
The thing is I guess every game is different. While I would love to see all the things that made SWG great, Swtor will most likely not put them in the game. I am fine with that because either way this game will be my permanent home.
Come Dec. 15 it will be a bitter-sweet day for me. I am losing the home I have been in for 3+ years and gaining a new one on the game I love.
I honestly can’t decide if I am going to spend that day with my old or new home. The memories I have had in that game are priceless. All the friends I met, all the time I invested..gone. I am just struggling right now because as I mentioned before it will be a bitter-sweet day come next Thursday. (I know that is so close isn’t it!!!!!!!!!). Either way I look forward to having a great time in this game.
I have played SWG (and would have played it until the 13th if not for the SOE) then played WOW, and a hundered games in between.
All I can say is that this is the first MMO that I have palyed that makes it feel like your toon is really part of the EPIC world you are playing in.
In SWG you were at best a bit player in the larger scale of the stary. In WOW you felt like all the things you did and bosses you killed were just so you would have the privlige of beening there when the real important people did the big things that mattered.
In SW:TOR you feel like your one of the movers and shakers of this epic story, like your really part of how it is going to be told. Even the “Space combat on rails” as some have called it is perfect for this game. Yes, I would have liked it to be more open and free flowing as SWG space cambat was, but that would have made it all wrong and it would not have fit within this game. The way it is done feels right, and epic just like the rest of the game.
I think that there is “sandbox”, “themebox”, and now “SWTORbox”. And the last is by far the best way to go about it.
Wow, I have to go right now but do I have a want to post about this later.
In short, it’s a themepark through and through, and while the main class quests may always need to be linear, the rest of the game could REALLY, REALLY use some SLIGHTLY more Sandbox-y elements.
I’m not saying it should move closer to RPG’s like SWG, I’m saying it should move closer to RPG’s like Skyrim, because an MMO for many, many players is a game you want to be able to LIVE in, and you can’t really live entirely on a conveyor belt. The problem with that is obvious.
Themepark. The happiest place on Earth.
Yeah, for a couple days.
Trying to live at the themepark though might prove disappointing. Thus WoW’s typically spiky subscription numbers.
SWG was fun for what it was (I left just before the ‘revamp’). I liked the ability to make the game your own by plopping down a house, decorating it, and making your character what ever combo you wanted (even non-combat options like architect and dancer and doctor). The space expansion was very fun at the time too. But I have to admit I didn’t look back when I left the game for WoW. While WoW was/is far from perfect, having some narrative and standard places to team up and conquer made the difference to me. I never liked the mission terminals found in SWG. The world in WoW just seemed so much more populated and alive to me.
I am really looking forward to trying TOR for the same reasons I mentioned about initially liking WoW. The make or break point for me will be if the game can remain interesting at lvl 50. In WoW I left and came back multiple times after hitting the level cap and getting bored with the raids before the next expansion came out (mind you I think cata finally cured me of my desire to ever come back). If BW and EA can get new content and features out quick enough and provide fun options outside of instances and pvp at max level, I will be around for years to come.
I dunno personally I am having way too much fun in TOR to really care if it’s a sandbox or themepark. I have played both and have had fun an have been bored in both. TOR is going to keep me occupied for a long time.